Most No-Intro sets include extracted roms.
What are extracted roms? they are a piece of another ROM (usually an CD image or an arcade PCB image) from another system on which a game was ported.
For instance Super soccer was ported to arcade system NSS (Nintendo Super System) which is mostly a supernes mounted on an arcade board. The game was modified to only allow arcade game and coins system. Later the arcade pcb image was hacked to be playable on snes emulators. And that's what an extracted game is.
The current extracted games on the No-Intro dats are:
Nintendo Super Famicom:
-NSS games
-Chrono Trigger PSX Version
Nintendo Famicom
-PC-10 games (arcade Play Choice-10)
-Some gamecube rips
Nintendo 64
-Extracted ROMs (mostly Zelda clones) from gamecube ISOS
Do you think these games are worth being included in the No-Intro sets?
Discuss...
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Dremora on 17th November 2005, 19:40 wrote:
It's strange why PC10 games are included in the dat but Vs. aren't.-PC-10 games (arcade Play Choice-10)
-Some gamecube rips
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ alcoatjez on 18th November 2005, 19:09 wrote:
My say is since they are (some with some work) playable on the real hardware, include them. I must admit I'm also a bit of a collector and even love pirates and such, so perhaps I'm a bit biased
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 23rd November 2005, 18:34 wrote:
Renewal!!
The last NES wip dat has dropped pc-10 entries!!
Now only the snes dat still has extracted stuffs from arcade if I'm not mistaken. The sets get cleaner and cleaner...- removed PC10-"dumps". Simple reason: They are arcade roms and they are in mame so completely superfluous imo
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ hokuto on 24th November 2005, 15:32 wrote:
As long as extracted ROMs are playable on real hardware without any alteration, i'm for including them because they are equal to stand alone (i.e. not extracted) original roms released for real hardware when it was on commerce.
Arcade-extracted ROMS are MAME domain imho.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 24th November 2005, 16:03 wrote:
I strongly doubt any of these extracted roms are playable without proper hackingAs long as extracted ROMs are playable on real hardware without any alteration, i'm for including them because they are equal to stand alone (i.e. not extracted) original roms released for real hardware when it was on commerce.
Arcade-extracted ROMS are MAME domain imho.
for arcade it's obvious the coin system doesn't work on the home hardware
for isos extracted:
-chrono trigger (psx version) has a bad checksum so it won't boot on the real hardware.
-master quest : IIRC there were a dozen of patches before it was fully playable on emulators
it's yet to be proven any of those extracted roms work on real hardware without hacking
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Bent on 25th November 2005, 01:59 wrote:
As I told you the last time you brought this dumb argument up, any rom extracted from a gamecube disc is a complete, unmodified file contained inside a custom archive on the disc. Just as you wouldn't exclude a rom you found in a zip file because it wasn't a perfect byte representation, neither of these should be excluded either. IF any of them didn't work on an emulator before, and I think they all did, it was because of a problem in the emulator.-master quest : IIRC there were a dozen of patches before it was fully playable on emulators
Like I told you last time, if you want the name of the file on the disc and method to extract it, I can show you, it is no problem at all.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 25th November 2005, 17:20 wrote:
OK tell me. I have a gamecube image of "The Legend of Zelda Ocarina Of Time Masterquest for use on Nintendo Gamecube". Point me out to resources to extract the rom. I'll see if it works on real hardware...Like I told you last time, if you want the name of the file on the disc and method to extract it, I can show you, it is no problem at all.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Bent on 25th November 2005, 19:44 wrote:
Ok, I uploaded all the tools you will need to yousendit since they are too big to post here:
(expired)
If you have the same image I do, the first Ocarina of Time & Masters Quest bonus disc, US version, you want to open the .gcm disc image up with GC-Tool.exe. On the right side opf the window you will see a list of all files on the disc. The one we are interested in here is called zlj_f.tgc. A .tgc file is just a gcm file with a different header, it is used a lot by demo discs and such because a self contained image can be bundled with other images. Right click on that file and extract it.
Ok, now you have the .tgc file extracted, and you need it converted to a .gcm. You need to run tgctogcm zlj_f.tcg zlj_f.gcm. This will run for a few minutes and output a .gcm file. Open this file up in GC-Tool. When you look at the file list again, you will see two .n64 files. These are the roms, zle_f.n64 is Ocarina Of Time, urazle_f.n64 is Master's Quest. Right click and extract them, and you will have the same roms that are in the dat.
As for the NES roms that are in Animal Crossing, the procedure is a little more complicated, but I will post it here as well. If you open up the AC image in GC-Tool, you will see a file called famicom.arc. Right click and extract it. Depending on what region you have, the files inside will be different. I have the US version. Put famicom.arc in the same folder as rarcdump.exe (use the one in rarcdump.zip instead of szstools.zip, it is newer), then drag and drop the archive onto the extractor. A folder will be created called famicom.arc_dir. Open this folder and the next folder and you will find a whole bunch of .szs files, all emulator related. The gba folder contains all the multiboot gba files, but we are interested in the nes roms located in the game\01 folder. Drag and drop these files onto the yaz0dec file. yaz0 is a compression format found in a lot of gamecube games, it wil produce a .rarc file. Ignore this extension, the tool uses this as the default output extension. The resulting file is actually a .nes file that is in the dat.
I believe one of the files extracted in the previous step is not actually an NES rom, it has a name that suggests clu clu land but is not an actual rom. Maybe it is some sort of patch to turn clu clu land into clu clu land d? Not sure why they would do that when NES roms are so small, but whatever.
There you go, instructions for both types of gamecube extracted roms. Feel free to ask me any questions about the process if I didn't make it clear enough.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 28th November 2005, 15:24 wrote:
I strongly doubt the gamecube iso would originally have files with *.n64 extention so that gamecube tool probably hack the ROM data (adding or fixing a n64 internal header, trimming the size...).
I'm almost certain now the rom wouldn't work on real hardware without proper hacking but I have mailed people from ucon64 team for more explanations just to be sure.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Bent on 28th November 2005, 20:43 wrote:
Another thing I should mention is I dumped this game myself from the disc I own, I did not download it. No modification was done, that is the name of the file right from the disc. It's not that unblievable that Nintendo would use the same extention that we do for n64 roms, after all it is the name of the system.
EDIT: I am not sure I understand you. You seem so convinced that these cannot and should not be legitimate dumps from these discs, but when I present to you evidence that suggests otherwise, you think it is the tool used to extract the file that hacks it? The tool is not made specficially for this zelda iso, it works with every gamecube image. There is no special case that would hack an n64 rom located inside an image when it was extracted. You can pull the same file out with any other disc extractor as well.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 28th November 2005, 21:10 wrote:
tell me where the zipped rom is located (starting offset on the gc image and size of the zipped rom) I'll extrac it manually, unzip it myself and see if it works otherwise there is no guarantee it wasn't hacked at some pointAnother thing I should mention is I dumped this game myself from the disc I own, I did not download it. No modification was done, that is the name of the file right from the disc. It's not that unblievable that Nintendo would use the same extention that we do for n64 roms, after all it is the name of the system.
EDIT: I am not sure I understand you. You seem so convinced that these cannot and should not be legitimate dumps from these discs, but when I present to you evidence that suggests otherwise, you think it is the tool used to extract the file that hacks it? The tool is not made specficially for this zelda iso, it works with every gamecube image. There is no special case that would hack an n64 rom located inside an image when it was extracted. You can pull the same file out with any other disc extractor as well.
when an unknown tool is doing the job I don't know what exactly happens and it can be hacked at any point.
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ SolidSnake on 28th November 2005, 21:43 wrote:
Hi X-or. All informations from Bent are correct. The file is not zipped on disc. Is stored as uncompressed file. Use a hex editor and search for the legend of zelda string. And you will see, all is here. A original header + original game data. Nothing is hacked!!! Why you think !!always!! GameCube rips are hacked?
Nothing is hacked. All N64 Gamecube Roms are verified by me.
MfG
SolidSnake
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 28th November 2005, 22:22 wrote:
I didn't say you hacked your rom but I needed to be sure
Bent is the one who said the rom was compressed on the isos which is wrong
I hereby officially declare Bent clueless
I extracted a 32MB rom crc32 0x832d6449 from an iso of "The Legend of Zelda Ocarina Of Time Masterquest for use on Nintendo Gamecube"
this crc belongs to the entry "Legend of Zelda, The - Ocarina of Time - Master Quest (E) (M3) (GameCube OoT Edition)" on your dat
I still have to investigate whether it would work on real hardware or not mind you? (chrono trigger psx doesn't work on a real snes because of bad checksum)
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Re: Extracted ROMs debate. Pro- or Anti- ? \ Lukeage on 28th November 2005, 22:56 wrote:
I have the european (although i doubt it differs from the aussie release if there ever was one) release of the Zelda collectors edition which has the 2 nes and 2 n64 games on it. I just ripped it using GCOM 2.2.
Checking through the file, you'll find the n64 games at the following offsets:
Ocarina of Time: 0x3B9D1FC0
Majora's Mask: 0x0C4E1FC0
Extracting these out (32meg copy and paste) we get the same CRCs given by:
Legend of Zelda, The - Ocarina of Time (E) (M3) (GameCube OoT Edition).zip
Legend of Zelda, The - Majora's Mask (E) (M4) (GameCube Collector's Edition) (v1.2).zip
If anyone wants comfirmation on the two nes roms in it (zelda 1 and 2) I can extract them too.
As for them running on real hardware, I've no idea and no way to test it, but the fact of the matter is that these roms are there in their complete form.