Changes in the GBA set

[root]

Rif: 1718-1 Numbering discussion \ kazumi213 on 13th September 2007, 20:51 wrote:

So "that" day has come... I'm gonna miss you numbered DAT

Numbering was my friend.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 14th September 2007, 05:00 wrote:

it is the end of an era

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Dopefish on 14th September 2007, 08:52 wrote:

Finally the day has come to get rid of those stupid numbers. 4 8 15 16 23 42 ...

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Blade Arts on 14th September 2007, 10:34 wrote:

I would appreciate this change if the beta dat wasn't full of s**t added at random without the slightiest verification. I prefer no beta than 0% verified betas.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Magnetic_dud on 14th September 2007, 13:34 wrote:

My good ol' GBA System is going to be forgotten

AFAIK for xmas there will be about 10 games to be released... or they have been cancelled?

I loved the numbered dat...

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ neoforma on 14th September 2007, 20:18 wrote:

Funny. I've just finished collecting numbered set on September 12.

It was quite strange that numbered dat didn't include four dumps from the unnumbered one. If there were dumps, how come they were not included at all?

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 15th September 2007, 04:58 wrote:

I would appreciate this change if the beta dat wasn't full of s**t added at random without the slightiest verification. I prefer no beta than 0% verified betas.

you have not to collect every single file

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Lukeage on 15th September 2007, 06:05 wrote:

you have not to collect every single file

Exactly, if you don't want something just don't collect it or filter the dat yourself and produce your own local one (some creative use of sed would easily take care of this). There is a reason we use tags.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 15th September 2007, 07:53 wrote:

Yay finally a cleaner gba set, goodbye numbers!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 16th September 2007, 06:21 wrote:

I dont agree with this...not that It means much.

But anyhow, I like simplicity, and numbering was simple.

Now Ill have to deal with unnumbered and harder to manage dats once again.

Thanks again, No Intro, for continuing to be "Different" and ignoring peoples wants, with no regards, for their wishes. I have to say, from posts, the odds were 50/50

A couple dont like numbers, so the numbers go.

Ive stuck with No Intro dats, at the sake of Emuconnies dats, hoping sense would prevail, and everyone would get their acts together, and this is the result.

I gather NDS numbered are going as well???

You blokes may as well just collect scene releases!!, and save you all the time you spend dumping these things, and me the hassle of these changes.

Emuconnie dats are looking good, for me. I liked the numbered dats, and anyone with an ordered mind, or obsessive compulsive disorder would agree!!

I think that condition Is a possible prerequisite for collection of roms and the phobias associated!!

Sorry If you dont like It plain....but there It Is. I think you are Inconveniencing quite a large number of people, more than you may have considered, with this decision. I think this dat was more popular than many of you may realise.

Please someone...take up the reigns. Im not sure Connie will totally ally his dats to No Intro naming standards, or at least seems slow to have upgraded, and Ive only stuck with the No Intro numbered dats, for sharing purposes and compatability, to see wtf was gonna happen.

Now I know.

One less reason to visit the forum!!

Wow...How to promote friends and Influence people...

I wont use the ordinary unnumbered dats, unless I have nothing better to work with, and I see overwhelmingly that people are using them on IRC and other places...WHICH THEY ARE NOT!!!

There must be a reason???

Shot yourselves In the bloody foot, yet again.... .

Anyway,....Ce La Vie

Kazumi.....you are the only one who mourned this....which was the most sensible emotion and comment, of the lot!!!

BUT............Look at the protractors...

Nothing personal...I know this Is just differences of opinion!!

Why not, keep the numbered dat, and as roms are fullly completed, NEVER to be changed again, could be added to the numbered dat, and used as a way to clear HDDs, and for backup?? I could certainly use some space on my Hard drives!! Or Is this a pipe dream???

Also, really Loooooooooooooong filenames SUCK!!!

Not that I have many problems so far with this and No Intro...mainly Tosec, but worth mentioning while I have the opportunity,

Cheers, once again.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ introsmasher on 16th September 2007, 07:04 wrote:

I'm glad that the numbered GBA set was removed.

Numbering in the DS set helps me keep track of what's new and interesting, but as the GBA approaches its end of life there's really nothing to pay attention to anymore.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ layzee on 16th September 2007, 07:49 wrote:

Cheers, once again.

Could anyone confirm if this post is a form of sarcasm?

My Internet sarcasm-detector is faulty.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 16th September 2007, 08:19 wrote:

I think he means it.


imho numbering is great for the scene, but worthless for collecting purposes.

The dat makes sure you have all the games needed, and its a pain in the ass to find a game when it starts with a seemingly random number.

i dare you to find some obscure game starting with the letter D using a numbered dat in mere seconds.

So numbering has its purposes, but not here.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 16th September 2007, 09:09 wrote:

no numbering for dead systems: this means that NDS will be numbered for the next years. GBA no more.

a numbered dat was left here in forum and anyone can update his version: i don't see the problem.

we are taking a lot of fresh new decisions to grow up a bit as group and to be coherent with our philosphy.
decisions may be not popular, but we need courage not leecherz!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 16th September 2007, 09:55 wrote:

Ok...

So from that, I gather GBA Is DONE, DEAD, FINITO.....FINISHED no more added and no name changes?

I can burn this and put It away, and It Isnt going to raise Its head and haunt me, at some future date??

If so...BLOODY great!! One less to worry about

and I think I sort of summed that up, when I made my suggestion....

I realised I was making a song and dance about very little, (a single set really) but once again, Ill state.....Numbered sets are much easier to maintain, and manage. easier to find roms, than looking at 10 roms named the same with a few letters different. Hence, my bitch about keeping name length to a minimum.

Also, Im old....my poor old eyes arent as good as they used to be......

And Im Australian....you gotta understand, we are the "dryest' of all nations...and not just the weather.....

But always with a grain of truth...lol

Yes.....I was being a little sarcastic........sometimes i gotta laugh, or Ild cry...

Im not that bad a fella.....I just call a spade a spade!!

This Isnt such a problem, as long as there Is a choice, and with GBA now "Officially" closed, Its only NDS was affected, and you have cleared that up as well.

One last thing mate....I dont like the "leechers" connotataion. We are In fact, all leechers, how else do we get our collections, unless you dump ALL your own roms, raotf, and I had many of my sets long before No Intro came along.

So from one fellow leecher to another/s, mates......

Cheers.

[root]

Rif: 1718-2 Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Lukeage on 16th September 2007, 10:15 wrote:

But anyhow, I like simplicity, and numbering was simple.

Now Ill have to deal with unnumbered and harder to manage dats once again.

How is the lack of numbers harder? I've never understood this, especially now that the gba scene is practically dead. Ordering roms alphabetically is no more difficult than numbers, plus it means when someone is referring to a certain rom I don't need to figure out what '1305' is actually referring to.

Thanks again, No Intro, for continuing to be "Different" and ignoring peoples wants, with no regards, for their wishes. I have to say, from posts, the odds were 50/50

I've always thought no-intro has worked towards a philosophy, not necesarrily the popular vote.

A couple dont like numbers, so the numbers go.

Ive stuck with No Intro dats, at the sake of Emuconnies dats, hoping sense would prevail, and everyone would get their acts together, and this is the result.

No-intro doesn't suit your needs, thats ok.

I gather NDS numbered are going as well???

xuom answered this, but I can't understand how you came to this concusion.

You blokes may as well just collect scene releases!!, and save you all the time you spend dumping these things, and me the hassle of these changes.

Huh? We should just go with the scene releases and stop doing work for the benifit of just you? If we went with the scene, then why bothering having yet another dat system when there are already a few others out there that cover this.

Emuconnie dats are looking good, for me. I liked the numbered dats, and anyone with an ordered mind, or obsessive compulsive disorder would agree!!

Last time I checked the alphabet was ordered.

I think that condition Is a possible prerequisite for collection of roms and the phobias associated!!

What?

Sorry If you dont like It plain....but there It Is. I think you are Inconveniencing quite a large number of people, more than you may have considered, with this decision. I think this dat was more popular than many of you may realise.

Given how few new GBA releases have come out recently, how many people will really be that inconvenienced?

Please someone...take up the reigns. Im not sure Connie will totally ally his dats to No Intro naming standards, or at least seems slow to have upgraded, and Ive only stuck with the No Intro numbered dats, for sharing purposes and compatability, to see wtf was gonna happen.

Now I know.

So you'll bitch about the changes, but aren't willing to do any work to actually get want you want.

One less reason to visit the forum!!

Wow...How to promote friends and Influence people...

I wont use the ordinary unnumbered dats, unless I have nothing better to work with, and I see overwhelmingly that people are using them on IRC and other places...WHICH THEY ARE NOT!!!

There must be a reason???

Shot yourselves In the bloody foot, yet again.... .

Anyway,....Ce La Vie

Kazumi.....you are the only one who mourned this....which was the most sensible emotion and comment, of the lot!!!

BUT............Look at the protractors...

Wah wah wah.

Why not, keep the numbered dat, and as roms are fullly completed, NEVER to be changed again, could be added to the numbered dat, and used as a way to clear HDDs, and for backup?? I could certainly use some space on my Hard drives!! Or Is this a pipe dream???

You are welcome to take on this work.

Also, really Loooooooooooooong filenames SUCK!!!

Doesn't having numbers make them even longer?

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ gigadeath on 16th September 2007, 10:40 wrote:

It all depends on what you consider No-Intro about. There's many people who still consider No-Intro a warez GBA/NDS site who follows the "scene".

Thankfully the site has evolved into something bigger and better, the people who whines about the numbered dat disappearing are people who don't go along No-Intro project anymore. I think people now can start searching their "scene" somewhere else.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Chucky Egg on 16th September 2007, 16:14 wrote:

For those of you moaning about the loss of the numbered dat, let me explain how easy it is to maintain your own.

Take the last numbered No-Intro dat and open it in a text editor (notepad will do just fine). Take the last non-numbered No-Intro dat and open it in a text editor and copy any new entries from the end (i.e. the new dumped release data) to the end of the numbered dat. Add the numbers per the 'scene' release to the 'name', 'description' and 'rom' entry lines, save and use.

If you want to track name or crc changes, you will have to keep two versions of the non-numbered dat - the latest and the one previous and perform a file compare. UltraEdit is very good for this. Anything that shows up as different will have to be reflected in your numbered dat by making the edits manually. I think it's safe to say that at this stage of the dats life though, there aren't likely to be many more name changes. Once you've learned how to file compare and use find/replace, datting will be a piece of cake.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ DVBMan on 17th September 2007, 21:38 wrote:

GBA is dead? Of course not!
A System can´t be dead as long as it is being sold.
Nintendo dont even think about stopping GBA selling.
So why GBA should considered "dead"?

We want the numbered Sets back!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Sir VG on 18th September 2007, 04:39 wrote:

Numbered sets are much easier to maintain, and manage. easier to find roms, than looking at 10 roms named the same with a few letters different. Hence, my bitch about keeping name length to a minimum.

I contest this, for a couple of reasons.

1 - Easier to find? No. If you want to find a game in Windows, what do you search by? NAME.
2 - If you have a bunch of games with the same name, the letters at the end will be in alphabetical order. Only want a list or (E) games? Search Windows using the search for (E). Or whatever.
3 - At this point, there's so few games that will come out, it's easy to keep an eye on. I mean, when was the last release (F-Zero (C))? Almost a month ago!
4 - And besides, even ignoring #3, if you have an incomplete set, just run it through ClrMamePro and you'll get what you're missing.

And all this comes from a guy who still has the numbered set here.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Lukeage on 18th September 2007, 04:45 wrote:

GBA is dead? Of course not!
A System can´t be dead as long as it is being sold.
Nintendo dont even think about stopping GBA selling.
So why GBA should considered "dead"?

We want the numbered Sets back!

How many new titles for the GBA have been released recently? How many of those have even been dumped?

I attach a chart of the number of scene releases this year. As you can see, this has been decreasing, with under 10 releases per month in the last 4 months. It has almost been a month since the last release, and almost 2 months with only one release. If this isn't a sign that the GBA is dead (or on it's deathbed), then I don't know what is.

Add on the fact that Sir VG has done about 1/3 of the releases this year, which he has primarily aimed at fixing bad scene dumps and getting those releases which the scene has ignored. The GBA has pretty much come to the same point as all the other dats, where new additions will be infrequent, will be a much larger ratio of redumps to new releases and mostly be aimed at getting completeness rather than just new dumps for the scene.

As has been said, if someone wants to take on keeping the numbered dat maintained unofficially, I'm sure that there wouldn't be any complaints from anyone in no-intro. But you need to accept that the time has come where maintaining two (or more) dats for GBA is just pointless.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 18th September 2007, 15:43 wrote:

let's take a look at NDS: cooking mama was nuked and everyone (except advanscene?) removed it from their numbered lists. result: the rom should disappear from dats.
heh, great idea.... numbers.....

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ alcoatjez on 18th September 2007, 16:32 wrote:

Ok...

So from that, I gather GBA Is DONE, DEAD, FINITO.....FINISHED no more added and no name changes?

I can burn this and put It away, and It Isnt going to raise Its head and haunt me, at some future date??

If you look at it like this, the NES and the Genesis are also still alive, since there have been some new games for those systems too in the last year.
All xuom2 is saying that the 10-releases-a-week days for the GBA are over and I support his decision.
Why don't you complain about the GBC list being unnumbered? Since it's a small backup? No-Intro is a verification/preservation project, not a warez one.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Chucky Egg on 18th September 2007, 18:01 wrote:

let's take a look at NDS: cooking mama was nuked and everyone (except advanscene?) removed it from their numbered lists. result: the rom should disappear from dats.
heh, great idea.... numbers.....

This isn't any different to 1405 - Hoshigami though. The only reason this stayed is because it was re-dumped so quickly. Who's to say that the rom wasn't just cleaned and then re-packed by Sinabro?

On this basis, why not keep 1411 - Cooking Mama but tag it until it's re-dumped? It's obviously a genuine Korean dump and not a hack. Also, a bad dump is better than no dump at all for the purpose of preservation isn't it?

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 18th September 2007, 18:15 wrote:

for 90% of portals, 1411 is NOT cooking mama.
result: in numbered dats there should be no cooking mama.
the same with GBA numbered list: it includes crap, and excludes good things.

who fills numbers doesnt always follow our philosophy. anyway, NDS situation is better than GBA.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 18th September 2007, 19:39 wrote:

for 90% of portals, 1411 is NOT cooking mama.

Well, is No-Intro dependent on other projects?

BTW: Where have the following entries from the latest (now unofficial) numbered dat gone? The new/revised unnumbered dat doesn't contain them any more...

Super Robot Taisen A (China) (Unl)
Akumajou Dracula - Circle of the Moon (China) (Unl)
Wolfenstein 3D (USA, Europe) [h]
Sangokushi (China) (Unl)
Fortress (Europe)
GBADev 2004Mbit Competition (USA) (PD)

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Sir VG on 18th September 2007, 20:14 wrote:

Well, I can't explain them all, but here's a couple:

Wolfenstein 3D (USA, Europe) [h]

This was originally Wolfenstein 3D (E), but was proven to be a hacked dupe of Wolfenstein 3D (U). See numerous threads around the forums about it.

Fortress (Europe)

Removed, believed to be a dupe of (U) since a real (E) cart hasn't appeared, I believe.

Super Robot Taisen A (China) (Unl)
Akumajou Dracula - Circle of the Moon (China) (Unl)
Sangokushi (China) (Unl)
GBADev 2004Mbit Competition (USA) (PD)

I belive they were removed because they were unlicensed games. But I'm not positive on these and somebody els would more likely have the correct answer on it.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ xuom2 on 18th September 2007, 20:50 wrote:

Well, is No-Intro dependent on other projects?

mars is calling earth.. mars is calling earth..

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 18th September 2007, 22:26 wrote:

Thanks for the info, Sir VG! I read about this "mystery" of Wolfenstein in those days, but unfortunately, the title didn't immediately ring a bell when I was posting, sorry!

Regarding the (unl)-releases, you may be right, however, I don't quite understand, as in the NDS dat and so one, these games/files aren't excluded, are they?

mars is calling earth.. mars is calling earth..

Cool, what's life like on mars?!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Yakushi~Kabuto on 19th September 2007, 08:09 wrote:

A majority of the staff want unlicensed in, so they will be included eventually (if they are legit). You may need to wait for the next convention amendement that may decide of the dat content.

[root]

Rif: 1718-3 Re: Changes in the GBA set \ abs(0) on 20th September 2007, 13:52 wrote:

You know what would solve all of this ...

No-Intro GBA DAT-o-MATIC!

Any chance of that happening? I love the nds one.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ abs(0) on 22nd September 2007, 06:35 wrote:

In Reply...........

But anyhow, I like simplicity, and numbering was simple.

Now Ill have to deal with unnumbered and harder to manage dats once again.

How is the lack of numbers harder? I've never understood this, especially now that the gba scene is practically dead. Ordering roms alphabetically is no more difficult than numbers, plus it means when someone is referring to a certain rom I don't need to figure out what '1305' is actually referring to.

well.....Ild rather look for a single number, than go thru alphabetically when there may be multiple roms starting with the same letter and even same names, and then to look at languages and other things. What If I have 6 roms with the exact same name and only different codes.....means I must examine 6 files instead of going straight to a single one, and KNOWING Its the right one. What about Japanese and other named roms...Dunno about you, but I have trouble pronouncing most of them, which means I must examine each rome named in an "Un English" way, carefully to make sure Its correct. Makes sense to me. Looking for a single number Is definitely easier, In this way. Take browsing an Fserve for example...........no more needs saying.....Its not much different to browsing In Explorer.

Thanks again, No Intro, for continuing to be "Different" and ignoring peoples wants, with no regards, for their wishes. I have to say, from posts, the odds were 50/50

I've always thought no-intro has worked towards a philosophy, not necesarrily the popular vote.

Yeah they do....with very little concern to what others think. If youre not a datter, or a cart ripper, or an admin...then what you say or think matters very little, and you must just be a scum wares sharer. Thats the Impression I get...yet, I see EVERY one of the members here In IRC sharing. You are being an elitist, yes, thats the word....as well as showing how hypocritical this whole "warez" situation Is. RAOTF Ive seen It before, and I hope you know what to do with it.

A couple dont like numbers, so the numbers go.

Ive stuck with No Intro dats, at the sake of Emuconnies dats, hoping sense would prevail, and everyone would get their acts together, and this is the result.

No-intro doesn't suit your needs, thats ok.

YEP!! Done quite well before these dats, and will again. As for Connie....thats speaks for Itself. A GREAT loss to this community!!

I gather NDS numbered are going as well???

xuom answered this, but I can't understand how you came to this concusion.

Yes he did, after my original post....but thanks for pointing this out to me!!

You blokes may as well just collect scene releases!!, and save you all the time you spend dumping these things, and me the hassle of these changes.

Huh? We should just go with the scene releases and stop doing work for the benifit of just you? If we went with the scene, then why bothering having yet another dat system when there are already a few others out there that cover this.

Well, seeing as your offering mate...why not!!

Seriously get real...and dont try and manipulate what I am saying to suit yourself. You know damned well what I am saying. Besides......name one of the "current" dat manipulation tools, that does the job competently. Ive been In this "scene" probably longer than youve been out of nappies, so who are you trying to kid mate. I had full sets of stuff long before No-Intro.

Im always having Issues with Clr, In one way or the other, and the others are just as bad, so whats one more......add another to the pile. I understand theres a couple new ones coming anyway.

Emuconnie dats are looking good, for me. I liked the numbered dats, and anyone with an ordered mind, or obsessive compulsive disorder would agree!!

Last time I checked the alphabet was ordered.

YEAH mate....but If you knew anything about It, yould realise that alphabets and phonetics cause much confusion worldwide. Thank god we are using english with 26 letters and not chinese or arabic, with God or Confuscious or Allah knows how many letters......

I learned to COUNT.....long before I learned my ABCs..... Counting Is natural.....ABCs take work. Even the universe, Is coded In numbers...MATHS...nat bloody alphabet. 1s and 0s....same as that thing youre sitting In front of!!

I think that condition Is a possible prerequisite for collection of roms and the phobias associated!!

What?

anyone with an ordered mind, or obsessive compulsive disorder

Read the earlier post and understand the English language mate. Its there In plain English, using the alphabet.

Sorry If you dont like It plain....but there It Is. I think you are Inconveniencing quite a large number of people, more than you may have considered, with this decision. I think this dat was more popular than many of you may realise.

Given how few new GBA releases have come out recently, how many people will really be that inconvenienced?

Not that many with a completed GBA.....as I stated In a later post. Umm but even after that, 2766 - ratatouille (e)(de,fr,nl).zip, was available on newsgroups, as a NUMBERED release.....WTF!!

Please someone...take up the reigns. Im not sure Connie will totally ally his dats to No Intro naming standards, or at least seems slow to have upgraded, and Ive only stuck with the No Intro numbered dats, for sharing purposes and compatability, to see wtf was gonna happen.

Now I know.

So you'll bitch about the changes, but aren't willing to do any work to actually get want you want.

WTF AGAIN.....just what do you think I am doing during all those hours on MIRC...talking gay talk??? You think I dont contribute to the scene???

READ MY MIND.........Did you get the message???

Also...I run a web site...have kids, and a family, and other committments.

As for making dats.....well, I do mate....No copyright on dats as far as Im concerned....Ill modify and do what I like with them for my own personal use.....Who do you think made all my ClrMame Good Dats???

The GOOD FAIRY??

One less reason to visit the forum!!

Wow...How to promote friends and Influence people...

I wont use the ordinary unnumbered dats, unless I have nothing better to work with, and I see overwhelmingly that people are using them on IRC and other places...WHICH THEY ARE NOT!!!

There must be a reason???

Shot yourselves In the bloody foot, yet again.....

Anyway,....Ce La Vie

Kazumi.....you are the only one who mourned this....which was the most sensible emotion and comment, of the lot!!!

BUT............Look at the protractors...

Wah wah wah.

YEAH...I do whinge when I feel HURT. BUt mate...let me assure you you havent seen me really whinge!! Also, this Isnt whingeing, mate...Its voicing an opinion. And facts are hard to give a reasonable arguement against.....So.....

Wah wah wah, YOURSELF!!

Those dats were of value to me, and Im sure many others. Just because you dont think they were worthwhile, Is no reason to try and belittle myself, or anyone else.

As I stated earlier, NOTHING PERSONAL to anyone here......Just an opinion.

So...without saying words...use you imagination of what I think, on this one mate!!

Why not, keep the numbered dat, and as roms are fullly completed, NEVER to be changed again, could be added to the numbered dat, and used as a way to clear HDDs, and for backup?? I could certainly use some space on my Hard drives!! Or Is this a pipe dream???

You are welcome to take on this work.

I will, If I can get access to pre released roms...no problem...as If making a dat Is hard!! takes like 5 mins, yet anyone would think Its a major construction job. Im aware the hard work Is In assembling the romsets...not In making a simple dat. So without the pre releases, my dat will always be behind. Gawd!!

Are you offerring???

Also, really Loooooooooooooong filenames SUCK!!!

Doesn't having numbers make them even longer?

Yeah, It does.....pretty silly hey??.....but so does Changing Country codes to a longer format!!

Dont see many arguing about that......Not to mention the length of many of those Asian Named games, most I can barely pronounce. But I guess you had to get points somewhere.....but wasnt a very good one, tbh. pretty weak arguement actually!!

Anyhow........thats my reply mate.....laugh If you like, but I think a valid point for every one of your quotes.

To the person, who suggested a GBA Dat O Matic......BLOODY OATH. Great Idea.

I find that extremely useful, and It gives people the choice.

Cheers

EDIT: OLD AUSTRALIAN SAYING....

If I wanted to hear shit...I would have farted!!

And Another...Not Australian.
"Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted, nor to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider."

Sir Francis Bacon

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 22nd September 2007, 08:47 wrote:

so macca, you are saying that you know each number of each game ever released out of the top of your head?

So if ask you (without looking at dats or sites) what game 1576 is you can tell me instantly? or if i ask you the number of hello kitty japan you know the exact number instantly?


Ofcourse it is possible that you know this, but the thing is, these games where released with real meaningfull names, not 100's of meaningless numbers (the numbers do not relate to the game in any way except for the time the game was ripped at)

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ layzee on 22nd September 2007, 14:11 wrote:

but the thing is, these games where released with real meaningfull names, not 100's of meaningless numbers (the numbers do not relate to the game in any way except for the time the game was ripped at)

If the xxxx GBA numbers (and NDS for that matter) were meaningless to rom naming (which they appear to be), one must question why they are being used in the first place (apart from sorting by release).

Personally, I think the ditching of numbers is long overdue.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 22nd September 2007, 19:34 wrote:

I'm pretty sure a "GBA DAT-o-MATIC" (like previously suggested) would be a solution most people - if not even everyone - would be satisfied with. So if possible, put this into action!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ gigadeath on 23rd September 2007, 09:32 wrote:

An automatic generator for GBA dat would make no sense

Something like that would have been somewhat useful when the system was alive and kicking, yet we did without it fine, and now that the system is deader than Lincoln and a dat-o-matic is useless, we should do it?! No sense. Better save the energy for something else.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ dareal on 23rd September 2007, 11:04 wrote:

An automatic generator for GBA dat would make no sense

I don't get the point there. Why would it be useless? Everyone could get the .dat type he wants. Numbered / not numbered, beta,demo,.. / no beta,demo.. At least I would love it

You already have done the NDS dat-o-matic. So nearly no new code should be needed, just a different database, right? I don't think that would be THAT much work. But of course I don't know the details and could be wrong there..

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ gigadeath on 23rd September 2007, 11:16 wrote:

It's useless because the system is dead. No science involved.

dead system --> no new releases --> numbers become useless

Also the GBA dat must be consistent to other dats. Do you see any other dat with numbering (NDS dat doesn't count)?

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ gigadeath on 23rd September 2007, 14:35 wrote:

In Reply...

So macca, you are saying that you know each number of each game ever released out of the top of your head?

So if ask you (without looking at dats or sites) what game 1576 is you can tell me instantly? or if i ask you the number of hello kitty japan you know the exact number instantly?


Of course it is possible that you know this, but the thing is, these games where released with real meaningfull names, not 100's of meaningless numbers (the numbers do not relate to the game in any way except for the time the game was ripped at)

God some of you blokes are good at twisting words to suit your own needs. Either that, or you dont understand english well enough to know of connotation, In the english language!!

tetsuo55, you arent as good at the English language, as you may think you are!! Theres reading, and theres actually "understanding"

Nope...never said that....BUT GUESS WHAT....I can count to big numbers with little effort...dont need to remember them!! Its even easier to remember than names....ISNT THAT MARVELLOUS!!!

My god...sort/search by number and Ill beat you sorting/searching by name, nearly 99 times out of every hundred. just the fact that Ill type a couple numbers In my searchbox and have It found, by the time you copy and paste the name..lol

What I am saying Is I find It easier, with numbers. So do many I have spoken to over this, over the past few days. Every point I have brought up In these discussions, has not only been raised by myself, but also others. Many cant be bothered coming here for reasons such as this. Im different...Ill say the stuff, most people dont like to hear!!

And, At least I take the time, to come here, so I do have an Interest, and find the site of value.

And I disagree with the statement "the numbers do not relate to the game in any way except for the time the game was ripped at"

I tend to think, more like It was the next number on the list, and the date would have been a better number, If It really had anything to do with the time of release!! Cmon mate...dont treat me like Im stupid!!

Anyway, bottom line.....IF GBA Is finished...no problems. I never expected to see many more roms anyway, and should a couple more pop up, I can always number myself. Of course it wont be to any standard, or In any certain order, just as they come, and yes, possibly pointless, but useful to myself, and keeps the set Ive been maintaining for the last 5 years or so, at the same format, as its always been.

So, No...not a big thing, but I like a choice, and hate it when those choices are taken away. Thats what I was going crook over.

Anyway, thats It.....arguement over. Its not going to change, so Ill make do myself, like I always do, If and when more roms are released.

But mark my words...If another flood of roms suddenly appears, as GBA Is still being sold, just, and Is still quite popular...then this arguement Is gonna come back and haunt you ALL!! I promise to be the one to do It.

I understand 2 new GBA games released for Christmas, but dont quote me, so Its possibly not totally dead yet.

Who knows what may be released tomorrow, or next month

Cheers

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 23rd September 2007, 17:31 wrote:

It's useless because the system is dead. No science involved.

Honestly, a dat-o-matic for any system would be a gain... Not that I'd consider this as a must, but it would be a cool feature!

And btw, I don't think the GBA is "as dead as" - let's say - the N64 or the SNES. Besides the fact that there are a few new releases, the NDS natively supports GBA games. And I guess the NDS console will still be popular for some time.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 24th September 2007, 07:33 wrote:

Macca, you just proved my point again.

I dont think my understanding of the english language has anything to do with it, we are just not explaining ourselves in a way the other understands.

Ill try to explain what it looks like you are saying:

-Random person asks you to find the rom for game X
-You know each number that belongs to each game(or you use some kind of searchengine, meaning that you will be searching twice instead of once)
-You type the number in a search box, and the game pops up

(if i understood this correctly you are going to have to teach me how you know which game relates to which number)

this is how i would search for the game

-Random person asks you to find the rom for game X
-I dont have to have know anything except the alphabet(so this works for any and all set of files)
-I type part of the name in a search box, and the game pops up in several revisions, i choose the right one from the list of max 6 games.


Actually i dont have the multpile revisions problem as i use parent sets which only include 1 rom for each unique game(which is also why numbers would hurt me more than help me).

i do have to put another vote in for the O-matic, it would really be helpfull to have one for all systems. not just nds.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ kazumi213 on 24th September 2007, 12:48 wrote:

I'm working in the GBA parent-clone update. I'm bit busy until the end of september, so sorry the delay. But after that update all data will be available for a GBA-O-MATIC to be built, at least the parent-clone section (same features as for the NDS).

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Chucky Egg on 24th September 2007, 15:23 wrote:

All this talk of searching by number or just by name is pointless. Also, a numbered dump IS better than an un-numbered dump for the reasons as I'll explain.

If a file is called "0001 - F-Zero for Game Boy Advance (J)", then you have a choice of either searching for "0001" (which is pointless because your folder contents can be ordered numerically) or "F-Zero" which will list:
0001 - F-Zero for Game Boy Advance (J)
0041 - F-Zero - Maximum Velocity (UE)
1292 - F-Zero - Falcon Densetsu (J)
1508 - F-Zero - GP Legend (E) (M5)
1661 - F-Zero - GP Legend (U)
1718 - F-Zero - Climax (J)
2765 - Jisu F-Zero Weilai Saiche (C)

Clearly, two methods of searching will always be better than one. Also, it is much easier to lookup a numbered dump on various sites for specific information such as crc's, serials, internal names and artwork than just by name which firstly may not match and secondly could produce dozens of variations.

I'm assuming that numbers have been dropped not because 'they're pointless' because evidently, they are not, but because it makes file names un-tidy If numbering wasn't important to No-Intro, then why have a numbered DS dat? Why drop "Cooking Mama (K)" from 1411 in favour of 1431 just because of 90% of other scene sites? I thought this was a preservation project, that it has it's own naming convention and that it doesn't follow warez scene sites?

If people fully understood dats and zip sets, then one dat could utilise the best of both worlds. Here is a clrmamepro extract example:

game (
name "0006 - ChuChu Rocket! (J) (M5)"
description "A Japanese version of a crap game."
rom ( name "ChuChu Rocket! (Japan) (En,Ja,Fr,De,Es).gba" size 4194304 crc 2c8c1b5a md5 2f661853601455283f51e54fb85dea73 sha1 ea7099f5e4cbeee929f43db91b0331855202bb03 )
)

With this method, the zip file retains the original numbered dat title, but the important part i.e. the actual dump, has the full correct no-intro name. This method could also be reversed and to utilise kazumi213's parent clone list:

game (
name "F-Zero - Maximum Velocity"
description "The first F-Zero games for the GBA"
rom ( name "0001 - F-Zero for Game Boy Advance (J).gba" size 4194304 crc 25e3fc9a md5 0915ac62d58a160028eb47141657013f sha1 cd8648b7158cf7c979cc05dea4c1aa927496e8b7 )
rom ( name "0041 - F-Zero - Maximum Velocity (UE).gba" size 4194304 crc bd5e9798 md5 55c14323547aa4f83e5eede98d0417f3 sha1 8a08e29ec987f9cbdde21c34d5f7657aa7ba0be6 )
rom ( name "2765 - Jisu F-Zero Weilai Saiche (C).gba" size 4194304 crc 0E5C38B7 md5 C76CDEB30713CA9199788CB9AC95EEAC sha1 2BF6622398655A16A5D6B3D94241B72E63A71DE9 )
)

You also have the option of adding 'Manufacturer', 'Year' and 'Date' to the dats which I think should be done, especially considering No-Intro's strong views on clean dumps and preservation. I know you have a growing and very informative WiKi, but why not make full use of a ROM manager's features? Maybe No-Intro should start considering a standard for their CM dat format and adopt some of the examples I've shown? Most additional information like manufacturer and date could quite easily be data mined from various 'scene' sites and so wouldn't be difficult to add to your existing dats.

Anyway, feel free to elaborate and/or discuss . Or you could just dismiss my entire post and return to flashing your cart with your newly downloaded DS dump while some more over the loss of some decimal notation.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 24th September 2007, 17:32 wrote:

Good explenation, the only problem with a set that has numbers in the name is that you cannot sort it alphabetically, also although numbers add another searchable option it also means you need to know the numbers by heart or search for them in some kind of database.

I agree that the dat can and should contain a lot more information, kazumi and i are working on a parent-clone and merging system at the moment. When we finish betatesting it we will present it to the no-intro leaders and hope the system gets used in all dats

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Chucky Egg on 24th September 2007, 18:16 wrote:

Good explenation, the only problem with a set that has numbers in the name is that you cannot sort it alphabetically,

I don't understand all this obsession with sorting. What purpose is there to alpha sorting your O/S ROMs folders? If ROM sets were pre-fixed with numbers and you needed an alpha listing for whatever reason, just run dir > list.txt from a CMD window (windows based) and then edit and crop the first 7 characters. I'm neither for nor against numbered/un-numbered as it's only the data that I'm interested in. I'm just trying to show that these numbers have a use and that to some extent, should be part of preservation and not 'lost' forever. Let's not forget that without all these 'scenes' and dump groups, you wouldn't have half of the dumps that you have today. This is why I've suggested a solution by having one dat that will account for both tastes - a numbered set and an un-numbered rom dump.

also although numbers add another searchable option it also means you need to know the numbers by heart or search for them in some kind of database.

No. The sets still maintain their alpha/numeric game name so you don't need to know any number in order to search, you just have the option to. Removing the numbers simply removes an additional search method and in my opinion, part of the rom dumps history.

I agree that the dat can and should contain a lot more information, kazumi and i are working on a parent-clone and merging system at the moment. When we finish betatesting it we will present it to the no-intro leaders and hope the system gets used in all dats

This will be interesting. I hope you get it working and look forward to trying it out.

[root]

Rif: 1718-4 Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 24th September 2007, 18:51 wrote:

Clearly, two methods of searching will always be better than one. Also, it is much easier to lookup a numbered dump on various sites for specific information such as crc's, serials, internal names and artwork than just by name which firstly may not match and secondly could produce dozens of variations.

Good point! Whereas no-intro game titles will generally differ from other project's release lists (at the latest for 100% after the official naming convention), numbers should usually be the same ones. So, if you know the ID, you can look up a title in serveral "databases" regardless of different naming schemes.

If people fully understood dats and zip sets, then one dat could utilise the best of both worlds.

I only can give my consent! Having "separately" both information - ID and title - in one dat is a great solution. I have been revising the GBA and NDS dats this way for some time now and I really like this "style". Neat game titles/file names but you quickly have the IDs within reach if you (should) need them, too.

You also have the option of adding 'Manufacturer', 'Year' and 'Date' to the dats which I think should be done, especially considering No-Intro's strong views on clean dumps and preservation.

Surely this additional info wouldn't hurt anyone. And even better if this data could be integrated into the xyz-dat-o-matic's database. So everyone would have the choice if he wants this info in "his/her" dat or not.

Anyway, thanks for your creative post, Chucky Egg!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ tetsuo55 on 24th September 2007, 20:24 wrote:

the point with making the games sortable on alphabet has to do with actually playing the games, imagine if you will an emulation enviroment, where multiple systems are displayed in 1 list, without a search for keyword option, you could spend hours trying to find that game that starts with m...

Not many emulators or frontends are search friendly, most of them sort alphanumerically (making it almost impossble to find the game without some form of external searching)

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ kazumi213 on 24th September 2007, 21:37 wrote:

@Chucky Egg

In all your examples you've overlooked the "description" field. It is always possible to retain numbering information (and include many other infos) on that field WITHOUT affecting actual naming of ROMs. All ROMs would be named unnumbered (both archives and ROMs), but the DAT would contain the numbering and could be accessed through a DAT manager.

In example: RC allows you to sort the ROM list either by name (unnumbered info) or description (which if contains numbering would sort by numbering for you). CM also allows for description management (filtering, sorting), but I still have to be proven that it is as strightforward as in RC.

However, I think numbering removal is a logical and a required move when considering the aim of No-Intro Project. Numbering is NOT accurate info, it is not the same everywhere. So I'm not going to argue for numbering preservation beyond suggesting the above option.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Chucky Egg on 24th September 2007, 23:21 wrote:

@Chucky Egg

In all your examples you've overlooked the "description" field. It is always possible to retain numbering information (and include many other infos) on that field WITHOUT affecting actual naming of ROMs. All ROMs would be named unnumbered (both archives and ROMs), but the DAT would contain the numbering and could be accessed through a DAT manager..

It wasn't overlooked at all. I gave two different examples of what the 'Description' field should be used for. A better example for the purpose of No-Intro preservation project would be:

description "Dumped by Rising Sun with intro. Clean verified dump by Sir VG"

The point behind using two different names (set and rom) is so that you will have the names at a software/physical level. At a glance, you would have a numbered zip file, but a 'peek' inside would give you a No-Intro named ROM dump. Storing number info in the description field serves no purpose other than for database viewing and may aswell be in the form of a spread sheet. Take away the dat and/or ROM manager and this additional naming would be lost forever. Renamed at a physical level, a simple dir2dat would get you a dat with most of the naming/info that you would otherwise have lost.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ BigFred on 25th September 2007, 16:36 wrote:

If you go into a gamestore - do you see a game title or a number on the box? I don't know why we are even discussing. If there is an identifier that is in any way useful it is the official game-serial and not a hombrew number - there isn't even a standard. The only use in numbers is tracking scene releases and since new releases have stopped - no use anymore. If anyone still sees any use - come on, it is no deal to make your own based on the current one.

btw I don't know why NDS follows scene numbers. Drop scene-shit I say.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Blade Arts on 25th September 2007, 16:59 wrote:

btw I don't know why NDS follows scene numbers. Drop scene-shit I say.

Because like 80% of No-Intro userbase are rom-warez kids?

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ BigFred on 25th September 2007, 17:09 wrote:

Yeah and I really don't see the point supporting those when the project's aim is actually preservation. You know -

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ gigadeath on 25th September 2007, 17:36 wrote:

If you go into a gamestore - do you see a game title or a number on the box? I don't know why we are even discussing. If there is an identifier that is in any way useful it is the official game-serial and not a hombrew number - there isn't even a standard. The only use in numbers is tracking scene releases and since new releases have stopped - no use anymore. If anyone still sees any use - come on, it is no deal to make your own based on the current one.

btw I don't know why NDS follows scene numbers. Drop scene-shit I say.

If you're into NDS latest releases, it's hard to drop the "scene", at the end of the day they provide dumps, a NDS dat would always be dependant on the scene as long as the system is alive. After all NDS dat is a collection of 0-day warez, who cares if the dat is correct or not? We wll have plenty of time to correct it when it won't be on shelves anymore.

But for GBA dat, we should just burn the numbers with an industrial incinerator. They're homebrew, completely untied to the game itself and there are different numbering lists even. Actually I still can't believe numbers lasted that long.

Because like 80% of No-Intro userbase are rom-warez kids?

Bingo! You win the prize!

Just see No-Intro as a big bar, every bar has its fair share of smelly drunks who come in, drink like there's no tomorrow, harass other clients, smash things, piss their pants etc. The owner can choose to bear the drunks to get a couple pennies from them, or can choose to kick the shit out of the drunks outta his bar.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 25th September 2007, 17:50 wrote:

If you go into a gamestore - do you see a game title or a number on the box?

Do you see a CRC value anywhere? I don't suppose anyone would like to drop game titles completely and only keep IDs. If you think those are unnecessary, I respect your opinion. However, it's not 100% clear to me why keeping IDs in the "description" field would pose such a huge disadvantage...

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Blade Arts on 25th September 2007, 19:03 wrote:

Do you see a CRC value anywhere? I don't suppose anyone would like to drop game titles completely and only keep IDs. If you think those are unnecessary, I respect your opinion. However, it's not 100% clear to me why keeping IDs in the "description" field would pose such a huge disadvantage...

The crc/size are values that represent a reality of the rom image burned in the cartridges, so yes it is there, whereas the numbering represent absolutely nothing intrinsic to what you see in the store.

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ Zocker on 25th September 2007, 20:34 wrote:

The crc/size are values that represent a reality of the rom image burned in the cartridges, so yes it is there, whereas the numbering represent absolutely nothing intrinsic to what you see in the store.

Actually, BigFred was talking about a game store, not about pieces of a pcb... But thanks mate, now I know why it's not possible to keep IDs in the description part of a dat file!

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Re: Changes in the GBA set \ gingerbuns on 25th September 2007, 20:41 wrote:

All of you who are arguing for numbering, i ask you this: do you collect any other sets besides GBA, like the NES or SNES? If you do, would you like numbers on them aswell? What about older and older platforms such as amiga or the C64, do you realize how unfeasable it is to get accurate release information about these titles? When/if no-intro ever gets to catalogue pc games on cdrom would you number them too? What about platforms that had no real scene from wich to draw numbers, say the 3DO or Mega-CD?

It's either numbers on everything or numbers on nothing. Since numbers on everything is unfeasable the only reasonable choice remains. While i may have some qualms about how some individual no-intro supporters act when it comes to scene stuff, i understand and agree with this from a preservation philosophy.

(edit typo)

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Re: Numbering discussion \ bongloads on 16th October 2007, 03:33 wrote:

Thank goodness, it's about time the silliness ends. Numbers were/are the most pointless system for archiving roms ever. Contrary to some statements made here, it does not benefit, nor was it designed for, the scene. Scene releases are gamename-region-console-group, always have been and always will be, numbers were nonsense created by datters who weren't intelligent enough to maintain their collections properly : "Gee, I'm 2 dozen numbers behind, better catch up." Pathetic.
For those that are interested, there are Real Scene dats available for current and last-gen consoles - they do NOT however, give a hoot about modified scene releases or redumps to avoid intros - they are part of the scene, if you don't like it, collect Garbagesets, er Goodsets :-p

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Re: Numbering discussion \ bongloads on 16th October 2007, 07:52 wrote:

bongoloads....How many sets do you manage?

I manage ALL sets....or very near, and was collecting these long before No Intro

Now....as I am managing so many sets, that means an awful lot of roms to look after, and usually some updates each and every day.....I spend hours each day managing my sets, which dont only Include No Intro...but many others.

So...Yeah, It was handy for me to use numbers...meant I could tell where I was up to reallly quick, and whether I needed a rom or not. Also meant I didnt have to remember a name, but could easily remember a number that I needed....

It wasnt from lack of Intelligence........Im an Electrical Engineer, by trade, so I would consider my Intellect up there with most, so that blows that arguement.....but people have a right to an opinion, and a right to CHOICE.

It was purely and simply ease and convenience where I was concerned, and YES, I manage many other sets, without the use of numbers!!

But, as GBC was brought up as an example....I have seen many debates over a numbered system for that set, over the years as well. Fact Is, It wasnt forthcoming, so we simply "cope" with It. Just because one person finds a method easy, Is no guarantee, that all will agree.

If a set Is 100% finished, I can understand losing the numbers.....so If you look at GBA as totally dead, well fair enough......but you know what.....5 more roms released since this debate started.......I wonder how many more. Personally....whilst I know this horse Is on Its last legs....It still has a heartbeat, and removal of numbers, was, imo, premature. Anyway, whats done Is done!!

GBA Is still very popular, and Is still being sold.....who knows what may happen In the future...

And one more thing......IMO, there Isnt one single person who collects roms just for collections sake.....you all play them, so you are all as guilty, If not moreso than the actual warez kiddies, because you actually also DUMP them here.

I would daresay, that In the eyes of the law.....dumping of the roms, would be more frowned upon, than people who simply download and play them...

People In Glass Houses, shouldnt throw stones!!!

It Is also, VERY Hypocritical, for the few elite dumpers, to "Lay shit" on the main foundations of this site. If It wasnt for those "warez Kiddies" this site would be a clubhouse for maybe 10 or 20 members, at most.......THATS A FACT, JACK!!

Cheers

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Re: Numbering discussion \ neoforma on 16th October 2007, 09:39 wrote:

Actually, there were eight releases after No-Intro removed numbered datafile. If you still need numbered dat, you can download one from my page. It's a continuation of No-Intro work and uses No-Intro name convention.

[root]

Rif: 1718-5 Re: Numbering discussion \ johhenrik on 16th October 2007, 19:44 wrote:

Connie is doing the numbered No-Intro GBA with No-Intro's blessing. You find it on his site.

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Re: Numbering discussion \ joele on 14th November 2007, 15:12 wrote:

Thanks to Connie - I like the numbered set!

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Re: Numbering discussion \ neoforma on 14th November 2007, 16:43 wrote:

I have a question about a new GBA dump. The boxshot says 2 Games in 1 and Disney's Brother Bear + Disney Princess. I have taken a look at other 2 in 1 titles in No-Intro and I'm curious, how this rom must be named according to No-Intro convention?

I'm updating my numbered dat and I don't want to change the title if the rom will be included in the next No-Intro GBA dat.

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Re: Numbering discussion \ moammo on 13th January 2008, 08:00 wrote:

Thanks to Connie - I like the numbered set!

same here... i've been lost without it... thanks Connie