New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

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Is it neccesary to add "Public Domain" regional tag?

Poll ended at 28 Dec 2022 07:06

Yes
3
38%
No
5
63%
 
Total votes: 8

omonim2007
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New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by omonim2007 »

After applying our latest agreements regarding unlicensed and pirated software (which, by the way, I did not vote for and was against it), the databases began to fill up with tons of sources, reading the names of which no longer makes it possible to figure out what kind of product it is.

The most problematic database is, of course, Nintendo NES. It has become really impossible to understand something among thousands of unlicensed, pirate and homebrew games.

I want to propose one innovation that will allow us to better separate licensed games from slag games, as well as give us a better understanding of what a certain game name means (whether it deserves your attention or not if you, for example, are not interested in game slag).

Example from SMS dat: Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (World) (De) (v1.1) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew)

In the traditional sense, the "World" tag means that the game was released physically (the priority path) or in a non-physical form of software. In this case, we have a non-physical form that can best be described as a Public Domain.

My suggestion for such cases: Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (Public Domain) (De) (v1.1) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew) or maybe Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (PD) (De) (v1.1) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew)

As soon as this game gets a physical release and is dumped, we will call it like this: Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (Germany) (Aftermarket)

What do you think about adding another tag when defining "Public Domain" ("PD") kind of regions?

P.S. The implementing of a new tag should make it easier to cut off unnecessary ROMs when uploading dat files. I hope so ))
omonim2007
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by omonim2007 »

I would also like to add that the Public Domain and Homebrew are not the same thing, since the Public Domain implies free software, and some Homebrew games cost some money (sometimes a lot!).

Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (Public Domain) (De) (v1.1) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew) - free software

Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (De) (v1.1) (Aftermarket) (Homebrew) - software that costs money (region tag must be blank or "Unknown")

Alex Kidd 3 - Curse in Miracle World (Germany) (Aftermarket) (Unl) - possible physical release in Germany

So one more proposal for Regions -> to add a possibility to choose blank region
KingMike
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by KingMike »

Beware, I think some Master System homebrew, such as that Alex Kidd game are ROM hacks (I believe made using an Alex Kidd in Miracle World editor), which the creators are, yes, sometimes selling.

Are we going to distinguish them from Homebrew (an original game the creator programmed themselves)?
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

omonim2007 wrote: 28 Nov 2022 07:05 After applying our latest agreements regarding unlicensed and pirated software (which, by the way, I did not vote for and was against it), the databases began to fill up with tons of sources, reading the names of which no longer makes it possible to figure out what kind of product it is.
There wasn't any kind of agreement, iirc. I think people started adding this stuff because I said to them it was okay. I shouldn't have done that without a consensus. That's partially why I think this stuff should be split into a separate dat (which apparently you are also against?).
omonim2007 wrote: 28 Nov 2022 07:05 ...
I don't think replacing "Homebrew" with "PD" solves any real problem. If anything it makes the meaning of the tag unclear at a glance.
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xuom2
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by xuom2 »

omonim2007 wrote: 28 Nov 2022 07:56 So one more proposal for Regions -> to add a possibility to choose blank region
done!
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

What's the purpose of the blank region?
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

omonim2007 wrote: 28 Nov 2022 07:56 So one more proposal for Regions -> to add a possibility to choose blank region
xuom2 wrote: 29 Nov 2022 19:48 done!
Sorry, but If we are talking about getting consensus about things, then we can't just go and remove the region info from a bunch of archives without any consensus or even any apparent reason.
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xuom2
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by xuom2 »

I am adding the possibility to remove region information, how to use this is a decision for the datter.
For me, removing the region or using "World" is the same.
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

I think its not a problem to have the option, but I think we need to have consensus if it should be used first.
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xuom2
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by xuom2 »

I personally don't like having PD as region, but only because... it's not a region.
If needed, I can add a flag specific for PD.
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

If I understand correctly, omonim wants PD to replace Homebrew, because its shorter. And he wants to remove regions for some things, because that makes the name shorter. I don't understand this reasoning personally, and I think a major change like this needs to have some sort of consensus.
omonim2007
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by omonim2007 »

Initially, our project was created and for many years was aimed at cataloging licensed and correct copies of games. All hacks, homebrew, pirate games and other slag were completely ignored.

The original meaning in determining the region of a game copy was whether it was physically published there on cartridges (or other media). The "World" tag has always meant that the game has been officially released in at least the following regions: North America, Europe + Australia, Japan.

It is understood that a game published in the "World" region could also be sold in any other country that does not belong to these territories (Brazil, Argentina, Oceania, South Korea, China, etc.). In any case, game publishing means a lot of work of a large number of people, and game publishing is a significant social gaming event in the region.

When we talk about cheap crafts of two or three people (and often even a single developer), then putting the "World" tag in this case is absolutely unacceptable. Yes, from a technical point of view, the game may not have regional protection and have the magic string JUE in the ROM header, running in any emulator or on any hardware, but this does not make the publication of such cheap stuff public in the sense of giving the game a worthy tag" World".

I didn't mean to replace the "Homebrew" tag with a "Public Domain" (or "PD") tag, my suggestion is to replace the "World" tag with a "Public Domain" ("PD") tag. We must clearly separate the big beautiful licensed gaming products from the cheap amateur crafts. Since there's no consensus on this yet, I've started removing the "World" tags from all games that shouldn't have it. Once there is consensus, we will either leave these games without regions, or change the region to "Public Domain" (or "PD").

It is strange that I have to spend so much time and describe such simple things.

I originally assumed that as soon as we open the doors to all the junk stuff, we will have big problems with how to properly catalog it all. Therefore, I have always been against such an idea. In any case, the decision has been made, so now it is necessary to develop an approach to how to properly and painlessly separate the trash stuff from the main dats.

The introduction of a new tag "Public domain" (or "PD") will make it possible to exclude all the slag when downloading dat files with one easy movement. The absence of the game region will provide us with the same functionality - it will also be possible to simply download dat files with all sources, except for those with the regional tag set to "Unset".

The next point - it would be nice to make it possible to show only licensed sources in the "Search" section, so that with one easy move we can get rid of the list of hundreds and thousands of unnecessary sources.

Everything written above I convey from the point of view of a person who at least 3 hours a day (every day for several years of non-stop action!) is engaged in a large number of edits in different dats, and I have a good idea of the things I write about. Free or paid homebrew games should be easily identifiable even by name, so they should not have regional tags like "World", "Europe", "USA", etc.

Another thing, if the homebrew game was published on a physical media, then we apply the standard name to it: "Game, The (USA) (Unl) [!]"
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

omonim2007 wrote: 30 Nov 2022 04:42 When we talk about cheap crafts of two or three people (and often even a single developer), then putting the "World" tag in this case is absolutely unacceptable. Yes, from a technical point of view, the game may not have regional protection and have the magic string JUE in the ROM header, running in any emulator or on any hardware, but this does not make the publication of such cheap stuff public in the sense of giving the game a worthy tag" World".

I didn't mean to replace the "Homebrew" tag with a "Public Domain" (or "PD") tag, my suggestion is to replace the "World" tag with a "Public Domain" ("PD") tag. We must clearly separate the big beautiful licensed gaming products from the cheap amateur crafts.
What on earth are you talking about? The region tag is simply "release region", and digital homebrew is available on the web, therefore released worldwide (unless the website blocks certain countries, which is rare but sometimes happens with Japanese websites).
omonim2007 wrote: 30 Nov 2022 04:42 Since there's no consensus on this yet, I've started removing the "World" tags from all games that shouldn't have it. Once there is consensus, we will either leave these games without regions, or change the region to "Public Domain" (or "PD").

It is strange that I have to spend so much time and describe such simple things.
That doesn't doesn't make any sense. Since there is non consensus on using PD or Unset region, nobody should be using those tags. There is precedent for using "World" already.
omonim2007 wrote: 30 Nov 2022 04:42 I originally assumed that as soon as we open the doors to all the junk stuff, we will have big problems with how to properly catalog it all. Therefore, I have always been against such an idea. In any case, the decision has been made, so now it is necessary to develop an approach to how to properly and painlessly separate the trash stuff from the main dats.

The introduction of a new tag "Public domain" (or "PD") will make it possible to exclude all the slag when downloading dat files with one easy movement. The absence of the game region will provide us with the same functionality - it will also be possible to simply download dat files with all sources, except for those with the regional tag set to "Unset".

The next point - it would be nice to make it possible to show only licensed sources in the "Search" section, so that with one easy move we can get rid of the list of hundreds and thousands of unnecessary sources.
Its already possible to exclude this stuff on the download page, but that's not the issue - the issue is that this stuff is in the default dat files that the majority of people use. Nothing you've suggested will solve this issue, and in fact you are blocking a solution to this issue by insisting the dats shouldn't be split, despite the fact your call the data "junk" and admit there was no consensus to add it in the first place.
omonim2007 wrote: 30 Nov 2022 04:42 Everything written above I convey from the point of view of a person who at least 3 hours a day (every day for several years of non-stop action!) is engaged in a large number of edits in different dats, and I have a good idea of the things I write about. Free or paid homebrew games should be easily identifiable even by name, so they should not have regional tags like "World", "Europe", "USA", etc.

Another thing, if the homebrew game was published on a physical media, then we apply the standard name to it: "Game, The (USA) (Unl) [!]"
Again, what on earth are you talking about? There is no "[!]" tag in No-Intro. You may have been doing non-stop edits, but they sometimes seem to be pretty mindless, and for such repetitive work, why are you not automating it?
relax
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by relax »

I think all can agree that both omonim2007 and Hiccup are important contributors to No-Intro, so please keep the discussion civil.
Hiccup
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Re: New region tag "Public Domain" (or "PD")

Post by Hiccup »

Sorry, I don't mean to start a feud, I just don't understand/higly disagree with this reasoning, and think major dat changes like this must be agreed upon, not just decided by one person. Although I am guilty of the same thing in the past.
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