Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

General No-Intro related discussions.
Post Reply
Hiccup
Datter
Posts: 784
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 11:29

Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by Hiccup » 13 Dec 2019 14:18

Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart (using different hardware/software or by a different dumper)?
There's been some disagreements about this between omonim2007 and me about this so I've opened this thread to see what others think.

User avatar
dreimer
Posts: 93
Joined: 14 Nov 2015 13:26

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by dreimer » 13 Dec 2019 14:56

I wonder what are the arguments against it? If it was verified several times it seems to be a good idea to write that down. It's not really needed when a dump already is trusted/verified, but a counter sounds like a useful addition.

omonim2007
Datter
Posts: 286
Joined: 20 Jul 2016 12:20

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by omonim2007 » 13 Dec 2019 14:57

My opinion is:

If two (or three or more) different people dumped from the same cartridge and using different dumping devices (or even the same class of devices), then it is necessary to consider each such dump as a separate one.

Hiccup
Datter
Posts: 784
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 11:29

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by Hiccup » 14 Dec 2019 14:57

Well the counter already exists, but I think at the moment each source is a single cart, which I think is how it should be. The ROM chip could be corrupted - its not just a matter of verifying the dumping process went okay.

User avatar
BigFred
High Council
Posts: 1208
Joined: 22 May 2008 22:42

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by BigFred » 15 Dec 2019 09:42

We already encountered some cases of faulty ROM chips so this could lead to improper verifications.

omonim2007
Datter
Posts: 286
Joined: 20 Jul 2016 12:20

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by omonim2007 » 16 Dec 2019 15:30

BigFred wrote:
15 Dec 2019 09:42
We already encountered some cases of faulty ROM chips so this could lead to improper verifications.
But if different people dumped with different cartridges (both of them bad), that such verification may also be incorrect.

It seems to me that the concept itself is important here. We must assume that the cartridge is operational.

Aringon
Posts: 64
Joined: 13 Oct 2019 17:01

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by Aringon » 17 Dec 2019 04:58

Isn't it astronomically unlikely for two completely different carts to be corrupt in exactly the same manner? I don't think that argument holds much water. I know probably nobody cares about my input as an outsider looking it, but I don't think you should increase the verification count for a single cart dumped multiple times. Does the DoM have the capability to list multiple dumpers/tools within the same entry? If so, you could do it that way. Like all my GBA dumps were with Link Cable Dump v1.6, but if I did them with a Sanni's too you could just add a second tool used entry but not increase the verification count.

omonim2007
Datter
Posts: 286
Joined: 20 Jul 2016 12:20

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by omonim2007 » 17 Dec 2019 11:48

The discussion above was not about a damaged cartridge, but about a problem at the factory where such a cartridge was programmed.

For example, 1 000 cartridges is recorded incorrectly, with several broken cells (incorrect data bits). In this case, two different people who dumped the cartridges of this series will do much more trouble for us in terms of verification process. Do you agree?

Above I sad about two (or more) DIFFERENT people. If you're making a dump alone using 5 different methods, it should be only +1 in verification count.

In all DoM databases there can be up to 20% of dumps that were made at different times by different people but from the exactly same carts. In many dats, I see cartridges with the same chips (SNES, SMD, SMS, NES, etc). Do we need to find them all and combine? Insanity )

Hiccup
Datter
Posts: 784
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 11:29

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by Hiccup » 17 Dec 2019 13:03

There aren't really many to combine. There was just a handful of carts that were dumped by both by byuu and badinsults.

hydr0x
Dumper
Posts: 842
Joined: 25 May 2008 15:31

Re: Should the verification count in DoM be increased by multiple dumps of the same cart

Post by hydr0x » 22 Dec 2019 12:52

omonim2007 wrote:
16 Dec 2019 15:30
BigFred wrote:
15 Dec 2019 09:42
We already encountered some cases of faulty ROM chips so this could lead to improper verifications.
But if different people dumped with different cartridges (both of them bad), that such verification may also be incorrect.

It seems to me that the concept itself is important here. We must assume that the cartridge is operational.
No. The idea behind the verification process is and always has been to verify that the ROM chip actually contains the data we store. Hence, it makes no sense to count a redump by a different person/system of the same cart as a verification. All you have verified is that THIS CHIP was dumped correctly. But what verification means is verifying that the ROM represents the chips on the actual release correctly. There could be a faulty production run or bit corruption/rot etc..

Post Reply