Stance on protos in system sets?

General No-Intro related discussions.
FitzRoy
Posts: 39
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 09:10

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 25 Feb 2020 20:22

scorp256 wrote:
25 Feb 2020 09:39
Lot of people really like to have their set complete with beta versions
Which is different how from having a complete [PROTO] superset? Why do unfinished versions of games have to appear in the same area as the finished versions. Would you want to go to Best Buy and shop for video games like this, with unfinished games in the same case, visually scanning past each one until you find the one that doesn't have (Beta) in the printed title?

They are forced downloads in torrents because people don't want to distribute sets that are seen as "incomplete". They make sets go out of date faster because they are 10x more prevalent than revisions. They bury revisions in searches and discussions, but they are merely windows into development that don't improve the game the way revisions do. Why drown out the importance of revision discovery?

baldjared
Posts: 4
Joined: 26 May 2008 07:01

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by baldjared » 26 Feb 2020 02:31

FitzRoy wrote:
25 Feb 2020 20:22
They are forced downloads in torrents because people don't want to distribute sets that are seen as "incomplete". They make sets go out of date faster because they are 10x more prevalent than revisions. They bury revisions in searches and discussions, but they are merely windows into development that don't improve the game the way revisions do. Why drown out the importance of revision discovery?
xuom2 wrote:
25 Feb 2020 17:00
I am not sure this will stop "romkids on forums" but of course we should not care of them.

No-Intro isn't in the business of worrying about how romkids distribute roms, nor should they be.

I personally prefer it the way it is now. A superset will sit on my drive to be forgotten and die. Whereas having them along with the final product I have played a bunch to see what differences I might spot. I've seen many revisions that changed next to nothing I've noticed when compared to earlier revisions. For me, personally, up to this point protos/betas have been much more interesting than revisions have been.

A filter on the daily packs would be a nice addition for the people that don't want them though.

Judging by how this has been going I'm sure you'll feel compelled to tell me my personal preference is wrong. You can save your energy.

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dreimer
Posts: 94
Joined: 14 Nov 2015 13:26

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by dreimer » 26 Feb 2020 08:44

If some romkiddie thinks he needs any ROM in existence then there are BETAs and PROTOs too. All are ROMs for the platform you are having a database for. Noone cares about some illegal torrent spreading, noone cares if they have more work to keep things updated. Not our fault, not our problem. We care about ROM identification and verification. This includes unreleased files too and if needed with weeks of daily updates in a row. There is enough stuff to make this scenario reality as I still wait for my contributions to be datted. Everything else is not our b33r. No support for romkiddies as we stay legal here. Here won't be spread any ROMs neither we give any support for them!

scorp256
Posts: 34
Joined: 26 Jul 2018 13:55

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by scorp256 » 26 Feb 2020 10:59

FitzRoy wrote:
25 Feb 2020 20:22
scorp256 wrote:
25 Feb 2020 09:39
Lot of people really like to have their set complete with beta versions
Which is different how from having a complete [PROTO] superset? Why do unfinished versions of games have to appear in the same area as the finished versions. Would you want to go to Best Buy and shop for video games like this, with unfinished games in the same case, visually scanning past each one until you find the one that doesn't have (Beta) in the printed title?

They are forced downloads in torrents because people don't want to distribute sets that are seen as "incomplete". They make sets go out of date faster because they are 10x more prevalent than revisions. They bury revisions in searches and discussions, but they are merely windows into development that don't improve the game the way revisions do. Why drown out the importance of revision discovery?
I cannot care less about what you see in video game shop. This is a database, which tend to collect correct physical release hashes for identification purposes. Whatever is on torrents is not related to No-Intro in any way. Buy the game, dump it, compare with the hash. That's the way it should be.

FitzRoy
Posts: 39
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 09:10

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 26 Feb 2020 18:06

scorp256 wrote:
26 Feb 2020 10:59
I cannot care less about what you see in video game shop. This is a database, which tend to collect correct physical release hashes for identification purposes. Whatever is on torrents is not related to No-Intro in any way. Buy the game, dump it, compare with the hash. That's the way it should be.
Nevermind the impact on "distribution", it's becoming a red herring in this argument.

Betas are usually one-of-a-kind carts. How do you verify the integrity of something that has no equivalents to compare it to? You don't know if the hash is correct and no one will own the cart to need verifying it. That fact alone should put them in their own set.

Hiccup
Datter
Posts: 786
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 11:29

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by Hiccup » 26 Feb 2020 20:25

Protos aren't necessarily one-of-a-kind things. They can be, but aren't always.

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dreimer
Posts: 94
Joined: 14 Nov 2015 13:26

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by dreimer » 26 Feb 2020 21:41

And unverified state is no reason to move them into some other dat, too. Trusted dump is enough to be added

FitzRoy
Posts: 39
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 09:10

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 14 Mar 2020 00:30

I would imagine most betas aren't trusted and will never be verified. A quick glance shows that most of what you're including is inherited from 20+ year old GoodSets. In other words, you grabbed the info from "distribution" channels you supposedly denounce, not submissions made here. We don't have names, cart pictures, anything. Sometimes we have a trainer with a dumping group? The authenticity of the cart is unknown, the integrity of the dump is unknown, we don't know where the cart is, and most betas do not have a second copy. A few might reappear, but we know that most of these betas will go unverified forever.

Hiccup
Datter
Posts: 786
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 11:29

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by Hiccup » 15 Mar 2020 19:40

No-Intro is not a database of good ROMs, its a database of the best available valid-looking ROMs. I mean, in the early GBA days, ROMs in the dat weren't sourced and they were often modifications of scene releases to remove intros, hence the name.

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