Stance on protos in system sets?

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FitzRoy
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017 09:10

Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 03 Oct 2018 13:47

Do you guys have any plans to create a superset of protos and betas from every system so that they stop cluttering up the main sets?

I want you to imagine going into the library, looking for a book, and seeing unfinished manuscripts right next to every other book. On the same shelf, given the same billing. This is what it's like scrolling through your romsets.

I get that they can be interesting windows into the game's development. But... each game had thousands of work-in-progress versions. Do we really need to treat the few that leaked out as some kind of vital historical artifact? Because I really don't think they are. And many of them are unverifiable, dumped from a one-of-a-kind cart years ago from who knows where. They could be bad dumps, good dumps, hacked dumps, fakes... and even if we have a trusted dumper, no one else can double verify it because it's a unique cart.

Hiccup
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by Hiccup » 03 Oct 2018 19:24

"Do we really need to treat the few that leaked out as some kind of vital historical artifact?"
In my opinion yes.

There could always be an option to filter out protos/betas from your dat or your view in dom.

FitzRoy
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 04 Oct 2018 00:43

Hiccup wrote:
03 Oct 2018 19:24
There could always be an option to filter out protos/betas from your dat or your view in dom.
Which is kind of like saying Cowering's (b)ad dumps and (h)acked dumps don't inflate sets, because you can just filter/ignore them. Perhaps you can filter them out of view from a dumping log, but that's the only place.

There is a file request forum, which shall not be named, but they have no-intro threads and it's just page after page of people asking for missing betas and protos. Endless requests for missing protos. Because the SNES dat is telling them they're missing files. Anyone looking for legit releases has to sift through that junk.

All that needs to happen here is betas getting their own superset away from actually released games. Don't remove them entirely like bad dumps, just get them out of the set space so that it doesn't utterly dominate collection discussion.

badinsults
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by badinsults » 04 Oct 2018 07:41

You really think that the rom kiddies will stop requesting prototypes if they are in a separate spot?

FitzRoy
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017 09:10

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 04 Oct 2018 09:40

badinsults wrote:
04 Oct 2018 07:41
You really think that the rom kiddies will stop requesting prototypes if they are in a separate spot?
Yes, because the threads are per dat.

Hiccup
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by Hiccup » 04 Oct 2018 18:57

I guess having protos/betas in a seperate dat could be an option.

hydr0x
Dumper
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by hydr0x » 08 Oct 2018 07:48

Yeah, sure, removing historically important artifacts and creating a hell of a mess (what happens with prototypes of never-released games? are those unimportant crap as well?) is something we should absolutely go for just so you don't have to be annoyed by ROM kids cluttering a ROM topic you are following...

FitzRoy
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 08 Oct 2018 11:30

hydr0x wrote:
08 Oct 2018 07:48
Yeah, sure, removing historically important artifacts and creating a hell of a mess (what happens with prototypes of never-released games? are those unimportant crap as well?) is something we should absolutely go for just so you don't have to be annoyed by ROM kids cluttering a ROM topic you are following...
-You act like there's vast options for finding the latest revisions and redumps. Rom sites are generally years behind and many have been shut down by Nintendo the past year.
-They visually inflate every list, not just threads.
-Betas of games that were finalized truly aren't that important and most were so close to final that the differences are tiny and uninteresting
-Protos of games that weren't released are important (like Star Fox 2 at the time), but don't deserve the same attention and treatment as released games.
-Betas can't really be verified. In many cases, we don't even know it's a real beta, you're just guessing and giving it that tag because it used to be tagged as the actual release until a redump exposed it. In other words, you've got hacks and bad dumps in your sets, guaranteed. You like that?
-What's the difference between a proto and an unl game? Define it. What happens if we find 100 betas of Barbie Super Model at varying degrees of completeness. You gonna db them all next to real games too?

They don't deserve to be in the same space as stuff you could buy in stores. I'm not even suggesting total removal and you're getting all defensive.

FitzRoy
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017 09:10

Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by FitzRoy » 23 Feb 2020 01:14

Here's what it looks like now loading your romsets in file loaders.

Image

talbin
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by talbin » 23 Feb 2020 21:30

I've resulted to filtering them out because it's gotten out of control. It takes a lot of extra time since I can no longer just download the daily set and have to download each dat one by one. I agree that it would be nice to have a seperate superset of betas/protos/demos but I'm not holding my hopes up about that happening.

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dreimer
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by dreimer » 25 Feb 2020 08:54

I vote against it. If you want a set without Betas/Protos then load a dat without them. The website easily allows to do that. For anyone else the SNES/NES and whatever dat file contains ALL files known and datted for that console as I expect it to when being named with the console title.

scorp256
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by scorp256 » 25 Feb 2020 09:33

I agree with dreimer. If someone do not like betas in their full set - load dat without betas and filter with your favorite rom manager and use it for your emulator. Or just go in the folder, mark all "*(Beta)*" and delete with your favorite file manager. Lot of people really like to have their set complete with beta versions, same way they like to have all versions for all regions, even if the only different is 1 byte, indicating region. I do not want to get 2-3-4-5 different sets, each having a couple of betas, alphas, re-releases etc.

scorp256
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by scorp256 » 25 Feb 2020 09:39

talbin wrote:
23 Feb 2020 21:30
I've resulted to filtering them out because it's gotten out of control. It takes a lot of extra time since I can no longer just download the daily set and have to download each dat one by one.
I suppose one day xuom2 could make custom settings for daily builds. Several people asked for that for different reasons (I asked for numbered for example).

omonim2007
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by omonim2007 » 25 Feb 2020 15:10

Of course, all this beta/proto/demo info was not added in order to be removed one day later ))

I did most of these work last year, and it was done after the requests of other users. I myself also advocate that there should be included a maximum number of different kind of cart copies that announced into the masses (including demos, beta versions and prototypes of all kinds).

So we need to talk only about the convenience of cutting off excess (demo/beta/proto).
But please remember: "excess" for you is a "true jewel" for somebody.
Therefore just only this functionality needs to be added to DoM.

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xuom2
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Re: Stance on protos in system sets?

Post by xuom2 » 25 Feb 2020 17:00

Yes, I can add a filter on the daily pack. I am not sure this will stop "romkids on forums" but of course we should not care of them.

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